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Welcome to Travel Buddy
In this episode, we sit down with Jamie Perry, President of JetBlue's travel product subsidiary, and Nowell Outlaw, CEO of Switchfly. The conversation dives deep into JetBlue's strategic evolution in travel products, highlighting how they are reshaping the perception of packaged vacations. Jamie shares insights on industry trends, the innovative approach to packaging travel services, and the transformative impact of these strategies on customer experiences.
Key Highlights:
- Jamie discusses the history and evolution of JetBlue Travel Products, emphasizing its transition to a startup culture in Fort Lauderdale.
- The changing landscape of travel packages and how JetBlue is moving away from traditional all-inclusive concepts to more flexible bundling options. —Strategies for simplifying the booking process, presenting consumers with tailored bundling offers and savings.
- High-value propositions from JetBlue's loyalty programs and how they contribute to a seamless travel experience.
- A discussion on the mindsets of travelers and how JetBlue aims to meet varied customer needs through customization and value offers.
Quotes:
- "A vacation package is a way of actually bundling products together and saving." – Jamie Perry
- "There's a lot of levers that you can pull to make this a really compelling value proposition." – Jamie Perry
- "All you're doing by not being a member of TrueBlue is you're leaving value on the table." – Jamie Perry
References:
- JetBlue Vacations: jetblue.com/vacations
- TrueBlue Loyalty Program: jetblue.com/trueblue
Transcript
Brandon Giella (00:01.714)
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Travel Buddy Podcast. Today is a special day because alongside our long time guest, Noel Outlaw, who's the CEO of Switchfly, we also have Jamie Perry. Jamie Perry is the president of JetBlue's travel product subsidiary.
And so Perry will be leading the growth of the JetBlue Vacations brand and other non-air travel products, including Paisley, which is JetBlue's homegrown travel website that gives travelers access to exclusive savings and points on cars, stays, activities, and travel bags. Jamie, welcome to the show. We are so excited to have you, and I can't wait to figure out what is going on in the packaged travel industry. So thank you for your insights. Thank you for your time, and I'm excited to get started.
Jamie (00:50.124)
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Nowell Outlaw (00:54.444)
So Jamie, so I guess one of the things that we were talking about before we started recording was the history of JetBlue, right? And most people I think think about JetBlue as just the airline, right? But there's been this successful development of JetBlue travel products. And I just, maybe if you took a minute just to explain what JetBlue travel products really is to people, I think it would be helpful.
Jamie (01:19.67)
Yeah, sure. So JetBlue Travel Products as a separate entity has been around for about six years now, but that wasn't the beginning of our exploration of non-air sales and offerings at JetBlue. We've been selling our vacations product, formerly known as JetBlue Getaways, for a while. And by getaways or vacations, what we mean is packaged offerings, right? Flights, hotels, potentially cars, activities, other things that could be bundled together for a single price.
We were selling vacation packages for many years, but about...
10 years ago now, we started to think about maybe we can do more here. Maybe we are leaving opportunity on the table for ourselves and for our customers and as an opportunity to get more deliberate and concise about how we do it. So we started to think about what would that mean and what would that look like if we were to go down the path of really sort of leaning into this part of our business. And we concluded that it would actually make sense for us to set up a separate corporate entity, Jetball Travel Products.
and move that out of airline headquarters in Long Island City in New York and set it up somewhere else with a very different culture and a very different sort of strategy and set of priorities. And the goal was to almost create a sort of startup-like mentality and attitude to things where we had an opportunity to experiment with different types of products, different types of offerings, different types of platforms, and see what really worked with customers, right? And see what really resonated with them.
So the team was set up down here in Fort Lauderdale in Florida and staffed from scratch with people who were, there was a small number of people who started the business that came from JetBlue Airways, but most of the people were new hires and were hired down here and have never worked for JetBlue Airways itself. We've created a very different sort of culture, a very different approach to doing things and a very different approach to technology.
Jamie (03:24.426)
that we think is quite exciting and that early results suggest could be something that will lead to significant growth over the next few years. So we're very excited now to be leading the charge into how we think about and how we sell non-air travel offerings.
Brandon Giella (03:46.279)
That's great. Okay, well, so Jamie, I'm super curious. How do you see the travel industry, especially in the package travel side, developing over the next, let's say, six to 12 months or so? As you're leading into 2025, what are some trends that you're noticing? What are things that people should be paying attention to, especially given our listeners and the travel industry at large?
Jamie (04:07.992)
I think that travel packages, vacation packages have a bit of a bad name. And there are certain audiences who very much associate themselves as people who are looking for a vacation package. And having worked in the US, in Australia, and in Europe, mean, there are very clear sort of destinations that are identified by customers at large as package destinations. But what's happening is you've sort of got this of subset of people
Nowell Outlaw (04:14.112)
Hmm.
Jamie (04:38.06)
and subset of destinations that are...
packaging people or packaging destinations. And that artificially, in my view, limits the market for packages. And I think we need to rethink how we sell those, right? Rather than saying to someone, hey, Noel, do you want to go on a vacation package? Which leads you to think either I'm not a vacation package person, or I don't want to go to a vacation package place. Whereas what we should really be thinking about is a vacation package is a way of actually bundling products together and saving, right? Now, if you
Nowell Outlaw (04:55.33)
Mm-hmm.
Nowell Outlaw (05:03.202)
Mm-hmm.
Nowell Outlaw (05:09.472)
Yeah, for sure.
Jamie (05:10.184)
think across multiple different categories and industries there are lot I mean insurance companies have been doing this for years right by your auto and your home insurance together and save right and that's not thought of as a unique product that only applies to sort of 5 % of the industry that's a that's an offer that applies to everybody so the way that I think we're going to see packaging evolving is a move away from this sort of categorization or naming of things and
Nowell Outlaw (05:19.522)
Mm-hmm.
Nowell Outlaw (05:29.218)
for sure.
Jamie (05:40.08)
places as package vacations and more into a concept of encouraging people to buy multiple products from the same place and unlock savings as a result.
Nowell Outlaw (05:51.458)
Got it. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I think a lot of consumers don't even know about packaging, right? Or they don't know about like JetBlue vacations. And then, and then you get these, you know, the, think the all-inclusive image, right? And you're locked into the, these things, these programs. And that's really not the case, right? I mean, it's really, you know, you, yeah, you can build your own journey, right? Which I think is super important and people don't necessarily know that,
Jamie (06:11.522)
No, that's not me.
Nowell Outlaw (06:21.078)
these programs exist. Like that's what I found is that people think of JetBlue the airline, they don't actually think of JetBlue as the vacation solution as well.
Jamie (06:31.274)
Right, and I think that comes because we as an industry have historically tried to push people down particular paths to purchase. So in this case, we say to them, do you want to book a vacations package? And most people know they don't, they want to book a flight. But some people do and they opt to go down the vacation packages path and we sell them a vacation package. But we're really putting the onus on the customer.
to identify themselves as a potential customer of a vacation package and send them down a path that they clearly understand or think they understand. Whereas what we really should be doing is trying to understand what they need. And then in the right circumstances, go, you know what, Noel, you've bought this hotel and you're now looking to buy these flights. Did you know that if you bundled them together as a package, you could save 6 % off the total purchase price? That's a much more compelling value proposition for consumers, I think, than it is trying
to get them to self-identify into something they may not understand.
Nowell Outlaw (07:33.888)
Yeah, you know, that's great. That's great.
Brandon Giella (07:36.172)
I'll say for me, when I'm booking travel, I'll book a flight because I know I need to go somewhere. And it's the secondary calls to actions that come up going through the booking process. like, have you thought about this, adding this to your stay or adding that? And it's actually really helped me a lot because I didn't know anything about package travel before I started talking to Noel in this podcast.
Jamie (07:54.836)
Right. I think what's interesting is people think about and research and book travel in different ways.
And it's not as simple as to say, Brandon always books the flight first, the hotel. Noel always books the hotel first, the flight. We do things different ways, depending on why we're traveling, right? Let's say Noel's going on a work trip. He's coming to visit a great client in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. He probably books his travel, his flight first, because he knows where he's going, and then thinks, well, where is the hotel that's near where? I've got to go and see these guys, and that's good enough. The price is fine. It's clean. It's reputable.
do right the hotel is not the focus of the trip.
Brandon is going on a multi-generational trip with his partner and some kids and parents and they're all going for some big celebration, 60th birthday, whatever it might be. The destination is a much bigger part of that thought process than the travel to get there. So you would start with thinking about and researching what's the location? part of the research into the destination is what sort of hotels there do they have or what sort of short term
rental accommodation do they have? And that forms part of your view on where you want to go, right? So you may not necessarily book the accommodation first, but you know pretty much where you're going to book, right? Then you go and book your flight. We're not going to be able to sell you hotel after that because you kind of already know where you're going, right? You you're taking a kid on a travel soccer weekend, right? Again, what's the destination I've got to get to? I just need somewhere nearby. I need a rental car to get around.
Jamie (09:36.778)
Depending on the occasion, the sequence in which you book is different, which is why trying to push someone down a particular purchase path doesn't really fit for that many people because they're thinking about this sequence of things in a different way. So you need to be, I think we need to be ready to meet customers where they are. Noel wants to book his flight first. Brandon wants to book his accommodation first. That's fine. We'll sell you that one piece, but then we'll turn it into a package if it looks like
Brandon Giella (09:53.969)
So smart.
Jamie (10:06.634)
like there's an opportunity for you to get a better deal by doing so, right? Hell, we'll even sell you the travel insurance first if that's what you want to do. I mean, you'd be pretty weird, but theoretically, we could start there and then start to build the rest of the itinerary around that.
Nowell Outlaw (10:24.335)
The, you know, the interesting thing is like, and I actually love the bundle and save thing. It just really resonated with me personally, because, you know, you hear about packages, people, people talk about this as packages, packages, packages. But the truth is it is really taking a component, an air hotel, a car rental, an active, you know, stacking it all together for a consumer, right?
and really driving ultimate value. for me, I'm like, yeah, that actually resonates really well. When you think about packaging in general, right? And not even vacations, but are there other inventory things? Where do see it going? Because I have a lot of people and their first thing is like, we need air and hotel and car, right? And then now activities has been a big one, right? And insurance has been added to the mix.
Now there are other things and trends that you're seeing that need products that need to be added to the mix to get this done right.
Jamie (11:26.2)
Yeah, think I'm a father of a nine year old daughter. So two things that have been high on my list of things we need to do over the last few years are Taylor Swift, Iris tour and Disney. And my experience trying to book those two experiences has been awful.
Nowell Outlaw (11:38.552)
Yep.
Jamie (11:46.432)
Trying to book tickets for the Taylor Swift concerts at any meaningfully large urban area has been extremely difficult. And if anybody's tried to book Disney tickets recently, you need some kind of like advanced degree to figure out all the various steps you need to go through and in what sequence in order to eat you need to what day you're going to go and what parks you want to go to and how many days do you want the ticket for and what about food and what about express lines, whatever they're called nowadays, right?
Nowell Outlaw (12:05.302)
for
Jamie (12:16.438)
It's so freaking complicated that I think being able to incorporate that kind of event ticketing into bundles, not necessarily to save money, but to just take the burden off the consumer.
could be an enormous benefit. We're actually seeing here at Shepard Cloud Travel Products, we're seeing people booking away from Disney, not because they don't want to go to Disney, but it's too, they've been hard, right? Too complicated. So how do we make that easier? How do we make it more seamless for customers? How do we incorporate that sort of thing into the process of buying the broader travel around it?
Nowell Outlaw (12:44.684)
Yeah, for sure.
Nowell Outlaw (12:55.82)
You know.
Brandon Giella (12:55.968)
If I'm understanding you right, does that mean like you go to the website and you're looking for travel and you see, you know, Taylor Swift, AeroStore is coming up this summer. When do you want to go? Where do you want to go? it putting all those packages together. That sounds nice.
Jamie (13:07.288)
I think it's not so much telling people Taylor Swift is coming. I think the world pretty much knows that she's here. So you've got people that want to go. And certainly my experience living in New York was it was so difficult to get tickets in New York that a lot of people we knew were like, let's go to Miami, let's go to Barcelona, let's go to Amsterdam, see her there, right? Because it was actually easier to get tickets in those locations. But I think if someone were to start looking for
Brandon Giella (13:11.683)
No, of course. Yeah, of course.
Nowell Outlaw (13:12.258)
for sure.
Brandon Giella (13:28.264)
Sure.
Jamie (13:37.044)
sort of hotels around that sort of time, could say, hey, would you be interested in this experience as well? You're gonna be there at the same time, or maybe you're right. Maybe you start with, we can help you here and then we can put pieces around it, right? Once you have your ticketing, okay? So it's going back to where people start. I would guess with something like a Taylor Swift concert, you'd start with the tickets, because until you know where and when you're going, you're not gonna wanna be buying the other pieces.
Brandon Giella (13:43.911)
Cool.
Brandon Giella (14:01.904)
I love that.
Nowell Outlaw (14:02.934)
I think we should just build Taylor Swift travel. mean, just forget about it. And all you do is cater. I mean, you know, she could fill all of JetBlue's airplanes probably. It's absolutely crazy.
Brandon Giella (14:06.83)
I'm in.
Jamie (14:13.036)
You wanna know a story? I know someone in New York who, their child was conceived when the Taylor Swift era store began, right? It's now on its final leg and that child is over a year old and walking, right? This is a monumental event that we may not see the likes of again, but I hear you. think we could certainly sell out flying people around to Taylor Swift concerts.
Brandon Giella (14:31.847)
I'm sad I missed it.
Nowell Outlaw (14:37.398)
Yeah, it's crazy and the hotels and all the other stuff that goes on with it. And then I think the interesting thing is that I'm not sure consumers, and Brandon and I have talked about this, I'm not sure they understand the savings. And probably I think it would be interesting just to talk really quick about, if I'm a consumer, Brandon, we go and we do this bundling, we're not buying a package anymore, a vacation package.
Brandon Giella (14:37.767)
players.
Jamie (14:41.463)
Right.
Nowell Outlaw (15:05.802)
rebundling together my flight and my car and my hotel. You know, what am I saving? Right? Like, like that's, think, I think it helps convey the sense of value to the consumer. You know, what, kind of
Jamie (15:12.481)
Yeah.
Jamie (15:18.262)
Yeah, it's a great question. mean, obviously it's difficult to get into specifics because it varies so much by location and by time and everything else. by putting a hotel and a flight together, you could be saving.
a decent amount. And when you combine that with loyalty points on top of everything else that you're getting and that you're saving, you're really talking about a compelling value proposition. Right. So you're getting discounted flights. Typically, you're getting discounted hotels. You're probably getting if you want a rental car depends where you're going. But if you want a rental car, you're getting a discount on that as well. Even with all those discounts, it's still a meaningfully large number. And then when you layer the loyalty
points and the accelerators on top of that, right? It can be a very, very compelling value proposition indeed.
Nowell Outlaw (16:07.842)
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And that's, you know, I think that is the driver. just got a, an email over the weekend, from jet blue that was, I think it was up to $600 off. And, I only had to make a hundred dollar deposit to book my vacation. And you start thinking about, you know, well, if I want to go, you know, to the Dominican Republic, right. Or go to Aruba or go to those places in, you know, in January or February, you know, getting that.
Jamie (16:19.734)
Yeah.
Jamie (16:23.83)
Yeah. Yeah.
Nowell Outlaw (16:37.526)
that discount plus being able to hold it right and on top of that like I'm bundling and saving that's a pretty compelling story right.
Jamie (16:41.015)
Yeah.
Jamie (16:45.356)
Yeah, there's a lot of levers that you can pull to make this a really compelling value proposition. You spoke about putting down deposits so you pay the rest later. That's another one. What I would say is when I started here, I've only been here almost three months, so I'm still pretty new in role. I wanted to understand who our customers were and how much they were spending and how much they were saving. So I did some basic research on our data. And I found that there were, interestingly, three core groups of customers.
First of all, my assumption was that most of the people who buy from us are people who are somehow they have some kind of affinity to JetBlue or they're invested in TrueBlue program and that is true. Most of the people who book with us are TrueBlue members and therefore have some sort of loyalty program benefit to booking through us. But what's interesting is two other things I found. One is there is a meaningful subset of people who book with us who are our mosaic customers, so our top tier status.
Nowell Outlaw (17:40.93)
Okay.
Jamie (17:43.21)
They spend significantly more on the flight and on the accommodation than regular True Blue members do. So we have almost like a luxury or a high-end segment to our audience who are disproportionately benefiting from the loyalty overlay and from the discounts because they're looking to spend more. Nicer properties, sort of more expensive room, more peak season, what have you. But then there's also another segment who are not actually in the True Blue program.
at all. So if I think about that, think why would someone come and book with us if they're not a true Blue Member? And the answer is they're getting such a great deal on the bundle that even though they're not really taking advantage of any loyalty perks that they may get, it's still the logical place for them to book. So it just goes to show that even within this sort of demographic of people who book packages, there are subsets of people with different needs who are each finding those needs are met by what we offer.
Nowell Outlaw (18:22.722)
Correct.
Brandon Giella (18:45.489)
That's amazing.
Nowell Outlaw (18:46.978)
Sorry, I just disconnected for a second. The power of the internet. But I was gonna ask you, right, and we can edit this up, but Jamie, I was gonna ask you, I mean, for a consumer, right, I don't think people actually understand how those things are stacked, right? And so, yes, there's a discount just from coming to the site and buying the things, but like when you're given the opportunity to sign up for the loyalty program, right, you should do it, right? Because all of a sudden,
Brandon Giella (18:49.158)
Yeah, that's alright.
You
Jamie (19:12.982)
Yeah. Really sure.
Nowell Outlaw (19:15.712)
You're offered things at even, you know, a more of a discount or different categories of things that, you're starting to build those points, right? To really start driving the thing forward. Right.
Jamie (19:23.298)
Right.
Yeah, all you're doing by not being a member of True Blue is you're leaving value on the table.
you're not going to have to pay any more for that really good deal over here. You're just not taking advantage of the points that you're getting on top. And depending on the status that you have and whether you have one of our co-brand credit cards, there are even more value driving benefits. You can get points accelerators, can get credits, statement credits, et cetera, that drive incremental value. there are a bunch of people out there, smart people, who really understand how all these things fit together and are using them
Nowell Outlaw (19:46.986)
sure.
Jamie (20:02.072)
in a combination that drives the most value for them. But there's a lot of people we still need to educate on how all this stuff works and how they can get the maximum value out of the whole opportunity.
Nowell Outlaw (20:12.94)
for sure. Yeah, and I think it's great and just watching JetBlue and what it's done. Over the last couple of years, JetBlue's doubled and doubled and doubled. The performance has been unbelievable, which is great because I think people are starting to really understand these stacks and how I earn value. And I think the offers and promotions are phenomenal for a consumer. So I think it's really good.
Jamie (20:40.12)
Yeah, mean, yeah, they are. And as I say, we have a meaningful people, volume of people who come to us just because they find a good deal. What's interesting is we've done some research and we find that going back to what I was saying about how people book.
Nowell Outlaw (20:52.066)
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (20:52.246)
There are three distinct mindsets that people have when they're booking. I won't say behaviors because Brandon might exhibit all three of these different mindsets depending on why he's traveling, right? There are some people who just need something quick and easy, right? The work traveler, the person going on the kids travel soccer game, whatever it might be. They know where they got to be. They just need someone that's clean and decent reputation and a good price. Don't care, put a good price, good property in front of me. That's fine.
Then you have a second group of people who are extremely value conscious. Now they will do their research and go to many, many sites and resources and investigate every possible combination of flight plus room plus car plus whatever to make sure they're getting what is the right deal for them. Not necessarily the cheapest. You can have people who spend a lot of money but are very value conscious. They're looking to make sure they get the best overall deal for what they're willing to spend. They have like a mental amount that they're willing to pay and they want to get the most for it.
And then you have other people who just love the act of research, right? They come home from work, they're looking forward to going on their vacation, they sit down with their partner, maybe over a glass of wine or a cocktail, and they talk about it, what about this place, what about that place? And the act of research is actually part of the vacation experience itself, right? The preparation, and then they're the kind of people who come back afterwards and they're writing reviews and posting photos on Instagram or whatever, and that sort of the post travel experience, but it's all part of that experience. we have to be a
Brandon Giella (21:49.191)
That's me.
Jamie (22:18.356)
able to communicate to each of those different mindsets with different language and different copy and different merchandising speaks to the specific needs that they have at that point in time.
Nowell Outlaw (22:31.554)
Yeah, for sure. Nice.
Brandon Giella (22:33.511)
Fascinating. Yeah, I do exhibit all this. But definitely, definitely in the second category is me for sure.
Nowell Outlaw (22:37.002)
You too. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm, you know, and the interesting thing is going back to Taylor Swift is all you have to do is put Taylor Swift out there and it doesn't matter. You're looking for something that's clean. You got to buy it right now and you're going to spend a lot of money for it, right? So.
Jamie (22:54.25)
Right, exactly.
Brandon Giella (22:55.366)
It's one of my greatest regrets in life that I didn't go to that show. So I'm with you. I'm with you now. I didn't make it.
Jamie (23:00.012)
We didn't make it. We didn't make it. The four figures for the third tier at MetLife Stadium was not compelling.
Nowell Outlaw (23:00.15)
Yeah. No.
Brandon Giella (23:06.064)
Yes, same, same, same. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much. Jamie, I appreciate your time so much on this podcast. Your insights are wonderful. And I have to say, I've never actually flown JetBlue. And I feel like as a Texas, a proud Texan, I need to jump on board. And I just, don't see any flights on this. Yeah, man. All right, well, I'll be looking.
Nowell Outlaw (23:06.252)
No, it's crazy, crazy. Okay.
Nowell Outlaw (23:20.874)
it's great.
Jamie (23:23.906)
yeah, we have to get you on board. Have to get you on board. It'll be love at first flight, Brandon, I promise you.
Nowell Outlaw (23:25.974)
Yeah, it's super comfortable. Yeah, it's great.
Brandon Giella (23:31.333)
That's right. Okay. Well, when I, for my old fashioned and start doing research with my wife, I'll, I'll encounter JetBlue products and see what I can find. thank you so much, Jamie, Noel, always great to have you and, we'll see you on the next episode. Thanks again.
Nowell Outlaw (23:37.25)
Nice.
Jamie (23:40.002)
Thanks.
Nowell Outlaw (23:45.91)
Great. All right, guys. Thanks.
Jamie (23:46.038)
Lovely. Thank you for your time.
