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Welcome to Travel Buddy
In episode 18 of the Travel Buddy podcast, host James Houchin welcomes special guest Laura Mazzullo from Eastsidestaffing.com to discuss how travel benefits can significantly enhance employee wellbeing and boost organizational success. They explore the impact of travel on employee engagement, the changing work culture in the U.S., and the strategic role HR and leadership play in fostering a culture of balance. Discover insights into how travel isn't just a perk, but a vital aspect of employer branding. Key Highlights: —The interplay between travel benefits and employee wellbeing, and its importance in modern organizational culture. —Laura Mazzullo shares her perspective on leading by example and encouraging employees to utilize their PTO. —The cultural differences in vacation habits between the U.S. and other parts of the world, and what organizations can learn from them. —Strategies discussed for improving employee engagement through travel incentives and creative vacation policies. —Insights into how travel experiences facilitate stronger workplace connections and cultural unity in remote teams. Quotes: —"Travel gives something to look forward to versus I'm doing this because I was told." – James Houchin —"Recruiting is marketing. And recruiting is also very much psychology as is HR." – Laura Mazzullo —"We all travel so differently... it's so personal." – James Houchin
Transcript
Brandon Giella (00:01.52)
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Travel Buddy podcast. Today we have yet another guest on our docket today. So we have James Howchin who's the head of marketing for Switchfly. He's been on many podcasts. Welcome back James, glad to have you. And we're also have on the show today, Laura Mazzullo of Eastsidestaffing.com.
She is an HR leader and expert, especially on the talent acquisition recruiting side of things, but has a lot of insights to bring to just the general HR market. And so today we're going to be talking about how travel benefits greatly enhances employee engagement, employee wellbeing, and overall organizational success. And we were just talking before we started recording that there's just a lot going on in the world.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (00:46.574)
you
Brandon Giella (00:52.218)
You know, call it politics or hot button issues. The election is just a few weeks away. It's kind of frazzling people's brains and there's just a lot going on. so well-being as always, well-being is very important for an organization to get right to have their employees be happy, healthy, productive, citizens of their organization. And so one way to do that is travel. Right? So James, we've talked about this a lot. So I'll start with you.
How do you see travel being so interconnected and so important on the wellbeing side of things? When you think about employee wellbeing, why travel? Why is that the first thing that comes to your mind?
James Houchin (01:32.149)
I think high level, you know, no one exists in a vacuum as much as some of us might wish that we existed in a vacuum, you know, especially like this kind of political, like there's no shortage of current events going on in the world. You know, that wears on employees, right? You know, we all have just kind of the credit of life that'll collect, you know, you have like a acute health issue, family stuff, whatever. And then on top of it, we kind of are all sitting in this boiling pan of, know,
just current events and the fun that is the fall of 2024. And that gets to people. You see it across not just only productivity as well as just kind of in our office relationships can get a little frayed at certain points, depending on what's going on. there's not a lot of tools that have the same level of impact that just taking, whether it's a long weekend or a more extended trip.
to really just kind of decompress, step out of the office, really kind of just fill up your own cup and arrive and come back to the office prepared and re-energized with a new perspective. And travel when combined with the employer brand is kind of a home run opportunity for the employers that implement it well and advocate for their employees. And also is a really good compliment for other kind of non-financial benefits like unlimited PTO or flexible work policies where
Sometimes it can be hard just to motivate people. know even just as a people manager, there's only so many ways you can tell someone like, hey, you've been working for six straight months. need to, like, you can institute a you're not here on Fridays policy for a month, but that's not terribly aspirational. And travel gives something to look forward to versus I'm doing this because I was told.
Brandon Giella (03:21.58)
Yeah, I love that. I'll say I've only had one vacation this year so far. It's, it's we're almost in November. So I'm a little burnout. I could use some travel. I'm dying over here slowly. just kidding. Laura, tell what are your thoughts on, wellbeing and travel and how you see like, given your experience, in HR and, just kind of things that you've seen any kind of trends or insights you're seeing just related to wellbeing travel.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (03:49.388)
I think we all have to lead by example. I think that in the past, especially in the US, and I know the three of us have certainly talked about this prior to today's call, is like you talk to our European colleagues or colleagues in Asia, other parts of the world. They're traveling two weeks every quarter. They have really long extended relaxing breaks. And again, we're talking about...
privileged corporate employees who might have the resources to do that, their culture encourages it. So even if it was more of a staycation, a hotel nearby, just a night away, it's very much encouraged. It's new still in the US. We definitely come from more of a culture of just grind it out. so historically, I think we all were conditioned, Brandon, like you just described, that if you got till November without a break, it was cool and who cares and who needs it? I think the...
the lesson for all of us as individuals, especially those of us who manage teams or in my case consult with HR pros to remind them to set the stage by doing it themselves. Because I think it's very hypocritical when an HR leader tells their team to take these breaks and to go away or take a long weekend or take a week and then they haven't done so. And so there has to be some humility around, know, I haven't done it up until now.
and I want to do better with it and we can kind of hold each other accountable for that and then sharing it with each other. And so, James, I know you and I have talked about this, like even companies who have really modern intranets or they're using different platforms to connect with each other. They can be sharing where they went and what hotel they liked, what country they went to, what city they went to and what restaurant they tried. And that sort of creates a culture of balance that's specific and not just kind of these grandiose like,
concepts.
James Houchin (05:39.701)
And just to kind of tag on that too, especially in an environment like Switchfly where we're a distributed team, you know, literally across the globe. It definitely is a cultural unifier to be able to share a travel experience, whether, you know, it's talking to a peer that maybe I'm going to a destination they've already been to. Maybe there's some shared interests of a friend where his thing is going to different roller coaster parks across the country and world.
Right? Like there's, there's all of these other ways to interact with people in a very, kind of disarming way in that, you know, no one has like, exactly. And, you know, if you're in an organization, you theoretically have very similar benefits, especially as it relates to like a travel reward, whether it's a quarterly annual type thing, it's based on, you know, your fifth year anniversary, whatever.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (06:17.922)
Yeah, it's a next order. Yeah, it cannot.
James Houchin (06:37.951)
You know, there's not a lot of underlying agendas except the travel agenda in a way that a lot of topics that we're all kind of wading through this time of year or this season unfortunately lack. So it's a really cool way, especially for the people partners in the organization to promote the culture, you know, regardless of whether you're sitting in central Manhattan as one of us is, or, you know, the rural South.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (07:03.81)
Yep. And we've talked about the culture of usage, right? So like it's not just about saying, our company has 20 days PTO. If nobody's using it, it really isn't something to brag about or to promote. So when we look at the kind of overall concept of employer branding and how you want to market your company, you want to make sure people are actually using these travel benefits because then it is exciting and people really will empower each other to use them. And so I just think that's something to think about. We've talked a lot.
as a community over the last few years about companies who brag about things and when you kind of peel back the layers of the onion, it's not really happening. And I think that's more detrimental than not having the benefit at all.
James Houchin (07:45.685)
For sure. mean, it definitely felt like the, 20 teens, know, we had this like work hard, play hard, kind of Gary V like hustle grind culture. And then the pandemic happened and we all kind of recalibrated to whatever work life balance is evolving to. And the semi-return to work, you know, I think it was Amazon just instituted, you know, mandatory office days again. know a couple of people were, you know, they're personally going through, you know, a more corporate restructuring. TBD if that's, know,
Brandon Giella (07:55.109)
Mm-hmm.
Brandon Giella (08:08.421)
Yeah.
James Houchin (08:16.309)
you know, short cycle or the net new. But there is definitely a conversation around like, you know, what are the priorities of, you know, new generations, you know, people actively choosing not to pursue salary as the top priority, but a much more flexible, almost European, dare I say it, work style where, you know, maybe Americans aren't going to suddenly start taking the entire month of August off, like some cultures I know, but you know.
Brandon Giella (08:36.453)
Mm-hmm.
James Houchin (08:46.037)
about 40 % of people will add personal vacation on any work type trip, calling it a leisure. There's all kinds of things adjacent to it that we're talking about where you can have a really.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (08:57.28)
I love that. As a person I've heard that phrase. like it.
James Houchin (09:01.205)
It's for sure like just a really simple use case where you know I'm going to a conference in Phoenix like maybe I stay an extra day or two You know go up to the Grand Canyon spend some time in Sedona, etc You know most of the cost has been offset by my employer Where you know it's easy to take a day or two off eat the cost of a hotel night and then Essentially have you know a long long weekend away
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (09:05.912)
Yeah.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (09:28.184)
Absolutely. Yep. Yeah, think about how many times people go to cities for a conference, they never see the city. So if you extend it a little bit, you can really enjoy it and be a tourist and take a break because work is not the same as rest. So I think we're all kind of craving that differentiation between the work time and the rest time. And vacation is such an easy place to at least try to practice that.
James Houchin (09:36.116)
Mm-hmm.
Brandon Giella (09:55.578)
You just don't go to France in August to your point James. went there, I did that one time. everything was closed. No, but Laura, to your point, you had talked about earlier how there's like, you know, internal chat systems or, you intranet or something like that. James, you had mentioned that before we started talking or before we started recording that it's something fun that employers can do, like to create that kind of culture. But also as, you know, the phrase employer branding.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (09:57.666)
Right. Nothing is open.
Brandon Giella (10:24.364)
It creates a brand that I think a lot of potential employees would be very excited about. Like if I heard this organization, you know, that they regularly travel together or, you know, that they create space for folks to travel or encourage that, that that'd be so attractive to me. And I would love that. I, Laura, so like, given your, background in, in the talent acquisition recruiting side of things, do you see that as being something that's really helpful for organizations to develop when you
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (10:51.662)
Absolutely. Yeah. I think we're also recognizing how many generations we have in the workplace right now, right? And this is travel or even just calling it like breaks, staycations, whatever we want to call this. It translates whether you're 19 or 69 in the workforce. You need breaks from the hustle of the laptop. so
Brandon Giella (10:52.847)
talk about the candidate experience.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (11:14.638)
Yeah, if your company is known for once a quarter, you track and measure, did your employee take a week? Did they take three days? Has it been, again, if you worked at a company where all of that was tracked and evaluated, somebody would have flagged you six months ago and said, hey, FYI, it's hard when you own your own business, which I know. But I remind myself also just to have little reminders, like, okay, it's January, February, or March. And in that timeframe of Q1, when am I taking a break?
Brandon Giella (11:32.901)
Yes.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (11:42.454)
Yeah, if you're a bigger enterprise company and you can really start to kind of like figure that out and have your leaders, not just HR pros, but have all your leaders look at their teams, you could absolutely encourage it more specifically. And then if you wanted to use it as a branding tool, think about even Instagram or social media platform for your company. You could have people posting and maybe you have a fun hashtag that people can track like, this is the trip that my company helped fund or this was a reward I earned and.
It doesn't have to be a ton of money. James, you and I were brainstorming this one day. Even if you're ... I mean, really, and again, I live in New York where things are very expensive and hotels here are very expensive, so take this with a grain of salt. But even if your employer gave you a $500 travel reward and just said, is not cash money, this is for travel, theoretically, you could book a few nights at a nice hotel even in your hometown. And you could have a spa treatment and you could have a nice meal. that is
incredibly valuable and again that could be used as branding if they wanted to promote it and share it externally and internally. It's just a win-win right? It's a win-win for the individual, for the employer to share, for future employees to look at. There's no downside.
James Houchin (12:55.293)
No, and I've met with Switch Black customers, whether it's one of our partners where we're part of the overall rewards marketplace, or you can pick the Blender or gift card or just book a trip, to more customized programs, call it, where it's, hey, we want a way to reward our people with travel. Excuse me.
And it's really interesting to kind of see the use cases, excuse me, I remember a conversation for a regional bank in the upper Midwest, fairly rural frontline workers. Like they could still do a staycation or something local, especially for a younger family. Or it's not even always comp-based where, yeah, sure, your C-suite might go on a five-figure vacation versus family making 50,000 different markets.
But if you have young families like Brandon not to pick on y'all, maybe you don't want to bundle up the family and fly across the world. Maybe it's a two hour drive somewhere for just like a day trip, like a pumpkin patch this time of year or something. And who's going to say no to that being subsidized through a work benefit or something like that. Activities are one of the biggest use cases for employees that we see.
Brandon Giella (14:16.132)
Yeah.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (14:16.558)
Absolutely.
James Houchin (14:18.749)
And that may or may not have a hotel or flight connected to it. know, there's a ton of with.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (14:24.088)
Well, we've learned that experience is so valuable, right? In general, we've learned that like team building in person or together or on a Zoom is more important than being isolated. We've just done so much research on the power of memories and experiences. So this is just another place to enjoy it.
Brandon Giella (14:27.771)
Mm-hmm.
James Houchin (14:28.5)
Exactly.
Brandon Giella (14:42.831)
them.
James Houchin (14:43.221)
And, you know, coming to that aspect, like, you know, my wife, was, she was traveling. She, you know, we, you know, ahead of the trip, we looked at the Switchfly internal employee platform and added just like a tour through Central Park, right? So like that ended up being, you know, kind of the hit of that, you know, New York weekend where it was something small, but, know, it was subsidized. was something where, you know, it wasn't really on the radar, but it was always like,
We should really look into that. you know, sometimes those are the coolest little part, you know, it doesn't need to be this blockbuster endeavor. Sometimes it's these small little stories that, you know, I know there's probably three states where the people that are sick of hearing that story now, but even these small little anecdotes, the employer is part of that, right? Like my wife's a teacher, but she's still talking about her husband's travel tech company and some of the benefits that we got because of that.
Brandon Giella (15:29.403)
Yeah.
James Houchin (15:42.077)
in a way that no one's going to talk about a cash bonus or a trophy. And the corner office, that's kind of falling by the wayside, even in an environment that's primarily office-based.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (15:56.258)
Well, all this can be customized as you basically just stated, right? It's like, there's not one way to travel and not everybody wants to get on airplanes and not everybody has an interest in global travel. So there's no right or wrong. It's really the employer can have fun deciding how they want to, you know, gift this.
Brandon Giella (16:15.269)
Yeah.
James Houchin (16:15.977)
that's the coolest part about a benefit like this or, you you can call it the perfect benefit reward, whatever. there's a consistency in experience across time zones, across, you know, pay bands where you just kind of get to be the hero of your own story. And, know, the employer is kind of a publisher, I guess, in this analogy, or, know, like it was kind of in the background, but there's that common thread of, you know, we all, we all access this experience through the same.
Brandon Giella (16:35.685)
Hmm.
James Houchin (16:45.171)
like entry point.
Brandon Giella (16:48.345)
the facilitator of memories almost.
James Houchin (16:49.045)
And the user generated content value is insane, Like, or to your point, like it would be easy for a people partner to, you know, ask someone, know, Hey, do you mind like sharing a photo from your fifth year anniversary benefit or, know, like with some of those more standard, like watermarks of, you know, benefits, but why would you not put that on a career site and then, you know, just like have a quick little snippet or, know, back to like link.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (17:12.974)
Right. Yeah, of course.
Brandon Giella (17:14.885)
Yeah, right.
James Houchin (17:17.459)
You know, I see everything on LinkedIn these days. It's almost turning into Facebook. Like, this is a cool way to like bring up work in a way that like, I don't quickly scroll past it because reading about something someone did freshman year of high school just isn't why I'm on LinkedIn anymore. Not to pick on people, but you know, it's kind of, it's almost kind of turning into a meme in its own right in some ways.
Brandon Giella (17:21.797)
Unfortunately, but in some ways, yeah, it's Yeah.
Brandon Giella (17:34.858)
Yeah, Yeah.
Brandon Giella (17:41.743)
Yeah, for sure.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (17:42.796)
Yeah, I mean think that we forget at enterprise companies you have marketing teams that this is their job to come up with fun things to post and share. It is so easy to have this be employee generated, exactly. Like everybody send to marketing your favorite photo from your trip and post from there. know, employees don't have to be doing it individually if they don't want to.
Brandon Giella (18:05.765)
Yeah, that's right.
James Houchin (18:06.101)
And it's a really cool way for HR to be cool in a way that like they inherit a lot of things. Like, you know, I'm sure someone's figured out how to make compliance training exciting. I just haven't seen it yet. in a way that, you know, some of this stuff, it's, know, cause the other thing we were talking about too is, you know, this isn't the kind of program or, know, you don't develop a culture with a single internet post once a year, you know, it's something that you have to kind of routinely promote.
Brandon Giella (18:18.661)
You
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (18:33.4)
system.
James Houchin (18:34.805)
Yeah, exactly. Even if that's quarterly, being able to post an interesting trip, a fun fact from the last time you or Brandon did something. It's a nice pattern interrupt where we all have things we enjoy about work. There's things that we do because we need to. My personal hell is receipts and expense reporting. But this is kind of the opposite. This should be fun.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (18:45.955)
Yeah.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (19:03.768)
Yeah. And it's really, we talk so much about HR leaders needing to be more strategic and partner more with marketing and partner more with the business. These are concrete examples of how they can do that, right? They can lead by example, they can promote this program, they can make sure marketing has a fun idea of how to share it. They can remind their leaders to do it. It's really an integrated concept. So it's not just HR's job and it's not, as you said, living in a silo somewhere. This is really...
Brandon Giella (19:04.911)
further.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (19:32.246)
an exciting concept for every layer of the company to take advantage of.
James Houchin (19:37.119)
For sure. And a lot of the platforms have actually democratized how you access this. You know, we have a couple of key partners that we do white label travel inventory for in the employee reward space. But you know, like the market's really starting to adopt these more experiential rewards, you know, stuff alternatives where, know, like we talked about at the start of the conversation.
There's a new expectation as different generations under the workforce of what they look for in their priorities. And a lot of the platforms, whether it's perks, talent management software, et cetera, they're all integrating kind of these novel approaches to how do we get away? mean, obviously as Switchfly, I'd love that to be our brand. But even in the idea of like, I can redeem this towards points on something off network or...
access stuff so it's not just my corporate branded polo, is really starting to, at different speeds, approach this experiential reward where it's something even two, three jobs down the road I still remember and think of fondly in a way that some of more traditional stuff. I have a reward I won, or the company won two startups ago. It's in a box somewhere. I have no clue where it is. It didn't, you
It was cool for a day or two, but I wasn't bringing clients or peers over to my house to see it. you know, it kind of ends up in the same bucket of, you know, bonuses where it goes to savings or bills.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (21:18.318)
Well, and you made a great point. If you bring a relative, like a spouse or a best friend or whoever on a trip with you or a staycation with you, and it was a gift from your company, not only now is that person bragging about your company, but they're having better wellbeing and they had a break too. So it's like a trickling effect of good things. And if HR pros and leaders really are ideally leading from a good heart and with empathy and compassion and all of that, then these are great places to look at it.
You're spreading goodness quite far, literally and figuratively.
James Houchin (21:53.813)
Sure. like, you know, there's always two sides to HR, right? There's the app, like there's kind of the carrot and the stick. You know, the stick is like, you know, ex-employee hasn't taken vacation for two quarters. you know, not that that's like a coachable moment, but like, you know, you kind of have to push them or motivate. you know, the same thing with like an EAP, right? Like someone goes through a loss in the family or something. There's those resources to kind of get them back to baseline. This exists kind of on the opposite end where it's
something to look forward to, something encouraging, something aspirational. A lot of the studies too that look at the mental health benefits of travel, most of the mental health benefits are actually in the planning and all the ceremonies that go around pre-plane boarding. Airports are no one's happy place. But being able to look forward to sitting on the beach, hiking the mountain, whatever that, or just...
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (22:41.07)
Yeah, anticipation. Right.
James Houchin (22:52.197)
sitting in a tent somewhere, whatever it looks like, just being able to kind of daydream even during a break, commute, whatever, that helps the whole person in a way that extends way beyond just the five days a trip may last.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (23:10.35)
But I just want to tie it together because you brought something up I hadn't thought about and Brandon, I'll put you on the spot for a second. Granted, it's different because you're an entrepreneur. But in theory, if you worked for an enterprise company and you hadn't taken a day off or a week off in nine months, it actually is an opportunity to have an HR leader or the team leader manage Brandon in that way. Like, why haven't you taken a break? What are you afraid of? What are you worried about? And kind of like help someone like him.
because I can do it too. And again, this is probably what makes us good entrepreneurs, but in general, know, dismantle some of that like type A rigidity, I have to be here, it's hard for me to unplug, I can't take a break. A good leader can have fun with that in terms of like, okay, this is someone we actually have to help, so they can get better at that. So that, and maybe their team can get better at helping and supporting and they can get better at delegation. Like it's such an opportunity from talent management, from performance management, from just people leadership.
to just start there, why haven't you taken a day off and what's that about and how can we better support that? So actually travel is, it's much more layered than just the trip, right? It's like, and why, how come somebody who can take one really quickly and easily, like what's that about and how can they encourage their colleagues? And I just think there's a lot of psychology to it that, you know, people always say to me, recruiting is marketing. Yes, and recruiting is also very much psychology as is HR. There's, you have to understand the nuances of people and how they behave.
Something like taking your time off is very complicated. And so it's a cool place to examine the behavior of your employees and work on it.
Brandon Giella (24:48.75)
Yeah, I agree. It's a doorway. It's how I think about money. can see like a dollar bill and it's like, that's just a dollar bill. It's just a trip.
But that dollar or that trip is connected to so many other facets of somebody's life. And to your point, did have my previous employer did where I hadn't taken a trip in, I don't know, six months or whatever it was. And I had a manager come to me and was literally like, Hey, you need to take time off. We're going to go onto your calendar right now. And we're going to schedule a time three weeks from now where you're going to take a week off. And we're going to schedule that right now and do that because they did emphasize that kind of.
Yeah, the importance of doing that so much. Yes. Yes.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (25:29.906)
And probably pushing you to remember it's okay to delegate or lean on your team or actually unplug. And especially now with our phones, we don't do a great job of it. So yeah, it's an amazing opportunity to let somebody, and then to come back from that trip and realize, nothing ended. We're not really doing life, thank God, altering work that a week is going to be that detrimental. But even for those brain surgeons, they need breaks.
Brandon Giella (25:47.14)
Yes.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (25:58.956)
Everybody does, it's really universal.
Brandon Giella (26:00.164)
Yeah, as an owner now, I ended with an 18 month old. I don't know how to do this anymore. So I need help. I'm gonna call a therapist later and work through my fear at that point. But you know, but it's really tough. Yeah, I don't know how people do it.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (26:06.222)
Yeah, I know.
It's hard. It's hard. I can take the time off as an entrepreneur. I can take the time off if I check my phone. I don't necessarily book calls or do work, but I can at least tell people I'll be back next week. I don't do an out of office because that would sort of stress me out because if a new client comes in, at least I can direct them to like, we can talk. But I can absolutely get there a whole day on vacation without a Zoom.
Brandon Giella (26:20.932)
Yeah.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (26:38.38)
And that to me feels like massive progress from a few years ago when that was very hard for me.
Brandon Giella (26:44.149)
Well, please send me an email after this of all your tips because I need help. Thank you.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (26:46.048)
I will, I'll remind you. Yeah. I used to be sitting in, you know, pockets of Italy on Zooms and it wasn't healthy. was like, could wait a week. Yeah.
James Houchin (26:49.129)
on
James Houchin (26:55.701)
Well, the other thing too is I don't want to be, you know, tone deaf to, you know, an accountant, you know, in April, right? Like they're just going to be heads down and unfortunately, you know, that's probably a 60 hour, 70 hour week for a couple of weeks. They can also book a trip for, know, May 1 or whatever, you know, that, you know, there's, should always be a point in someone's ear where like we can just kind of pencils down, step away. Same thing with us, right? Like we're
Brandon Giella (27:06.019)
Yeah, of course.
James Houchin (27:24.661)
we're agile, we work in sprints. Maybe it's, you know, if it's a dev where, you know, they're a great employee, they're an A plus player, they just don't, you know, they don't ever let themselves find that, you know, kind of pause. You know, like you can still look out in a calendar, look out, you know, look out, you know, we have the tool to book the trip. have, you know, here's a destination, you know, in terms of calendar where like, let's just pencil it down kind of like Brandon said, three weeks from now, right? And then they get
They get the benefit at least of something to look forward to. know, past life I had, you know, kind of that A plus player. just would not take, they were a homebody and you know, never found a good excuse to get away. It's like, literally we're going to have to, know, without a solution like Switchfly, it's like, well, you know, for the month of June, Fridays are PTO and you have a three day weekend. So right, like something. You know, that worked out for them and we, you know, it was flexible or creative approach, but.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (28:16.129)
Yeah.
James Houchin (28:22.249)
you know, ideally it really is, you know, kind of this, even if it's a long weekend, it's, it's an extended time to not be present or, surrounded by work, especially when you work remote, like the three of us, work kind of is, or home can be work, right? Like I see my workstation, I see my work laptop. can occasionally I'll look up ping, you know, cause I got an email and it might even be 9 PM. I still need to fix that setting, but, you know, there's kind of just that underlying.
Brandon Giella (28:50.501)
Seriously.
James Houchin (28:53.237)
I don't know if it's anxiety or, you know, like just that there is a certain level of cognitive load that that just exists with and really like changing your location, you know, even if it's just down the block is, is definitely a game changer.
Brandon Giella (28:55.972)
Yeah.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (28:59.978)
Absolutely.
Brandon Giella (29:00.303)
Yeah.
Brandon Giella (29:06.809)
Yeah, 100%.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (29:08.01)
And I can't stress it enough about customizing these kinds of programs for each and every employee because it shouldn't be anxiety provoking. If someone hates the idea of travel or they are a homebody, it's like, okay, no problem. This is just existing for you to not have to stress about money either. So like maybe if they live in an urban area and there's a day spa or there's a fun, who knows, an activity as you said that's in that city that they don't want to spend a few hundred dollars on because like they
They're better at saving, they're more practical. These are the fun things you can do. It should be really customized for each employee or each team. I hate the winter, I would want to break in March, somebody else might want to break in July. Really working with your groups to see, and again, what an opportunity to better know your employees, to better recognize them, to better retain them. It's another opportunity to go deeper on.
how well you know people's motivators and when they're stressed and when their cycles of anxiety are hitting. You know, again, as you said, Brandon, it's not just travel. It's like a much deeper lens on people and amazing for, I don't know many companies who do this well, so I was so excited when you told me more about Switchflags. I'm like, I think this is the kind of thing, if companies really use this and actually promote it internally and make sure it's totally a culture of usage, it's a game changer.
Brandon Giella (30:30.373)
100%.
James Houchin (30:30.725)
On Laura, just as you were talking, I pulled up like the Dallas Metro just for activities to pick on Brandon all that. you know, we have.
Brandon Giella (30:37.817)
Hey, I'm in Fort Worth, James, okay? Cowtown is so much better than Dallas. I'm just kidding.
James Houchin (30:40.661)
The Metroplex, the Metroplex. The Metroplex, excuse me. You know, there's 200 plus activities on the Switchfly platform just for the Metroplex, excuse me. You know, ranging from like $10 to over $2,000. The $2,000 one I'm gonna have to come back to because I'm curious what...
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (30:50.926)
Really?
Brandon Giella (30:51.589)
Cool. That's cool.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (31:02.09)
even like sports activities and stuff like other tickets and that kind of thing. That's fun.
Brandon Giella (31:06.447)
Taylor Swift Aeros tour, is that coming up soon in Dallas again or no?
James Houchin (31:10.901)
I mean, like, and especially New York, you know, like, it's a bit of a cheat code to all of this, but if you want a helicopter tour, you can book that through Switchfly.
Brandon Giella (31:19.845)
That's cool.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (31:20.206)
And that's something I wouldn't want to spend money on. I would think that's impractical. But if somebody else did, my employer, I'd be like, how fun! Like, that's such a cool experience. Yeah.
Brandon Giella (31:24.855)
Yeah.
Brandon Giella (31:28.951)
It is cool.
James Houchin (31:30.581)
not sure, like had a, I mean this was years ago, one of the agencies I worked for, they gave all the remote employees just a monthly stipend and you could kind of save it up. I went on a date night to a traveling Broadway show. Like no cost to me, it was just a cool, probably not something I would have thought of, but it was subsidized and Lord, to your point, you get all the credit in terms of like, you
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (31:58.222)
Yeah, I left.
James Houchin (32:00.039)
You were the one who empowered that my employer, know, like in my head, I was like, this is awesome. You know, you're bragging to your friends. You're just talking about it in a way that no one wants to hear about, you know, my 2025 blah, blah, blah. And it's just something fun. And that was, that was specifically done or intentionally done for remote employees who couldn't participate, you know, in the office happy hours or, like what, whatever was going on. some of more.
local places where they did have, know, people meet, it was a more organized activity. It was a way for the remote employees to share in the culture. And, you know, at the end of the day, I think it's really about having a flexible benefit that people are able to actually look forward to. And nothing we're talking about here is, know, thousands or tens of thousands of dollars per employee. can literally be a matter of a couple hundred. And, know, whether that's a spa day with, you know,
for yourself or with a friend or two, it's a, you're gonna go to a pumpkin patch down the road, like whatever. Everyone can do something just, either you didn't budget for or weren't planning on doing, now you can add that extra thing. I mean, unfortunately,
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (33:12.992)
Yeah, I'm just thinking too, like theoretically, you're a teammate, right? Like it's not that, like why not? If you're a really close colleague that you never get to see, or maybe you're in different cities, like this is a fun place that you both could not do work, but be together and get to know each other better. And I could just see how you can be so creative no matter how you look at it.
James Houchin (33:19.583)
for sure.
Brandon Giella (33:28.185)
Mm-hmm.
James Houchin (33:30.174)
Exactly.
James Houchin (33:34.325)
Well, and then you can kind of subsidize each other's part of the trip, right? Like each person gets a hotel night or whatever. There's, there's a thousand ways to implement this. And the cool part is there's no right or wrong. as long as you know, it's staying within, you know, kind of the work life balance. right. Like not saying taken on scheduled 10 day vacation to the Maldives as fun as that might sound, but, you know, I mean, like people get to really be the, you get to be the hero in your own story in a way that you don't usually get.
especially through work. the fact that it's subsidized is kind of icing on the cake because I swear I don't remember the last time I walked out of a grocery store for under a hundred bucks, right? Like everything costs more. Shrink inflation, whatever you want to call it. Like gravel doesn't have, you know what I mean? Like you can still do things in a way that maybe you wouldn't think about it otherwise.
Brandon Giella (34:14.598)
No, no, seriously. Yeah.
Brandon Giella (34:29.913)
Well, I love all these things that we're talking about because everybody has a favorite memory. Everybody has a favorite like travel story or the way that travel can connect and all these mental health benefits and wellbeing and all that. It is so universal. And that's why I love talking about it, especially with y'all with your backgrounds. But I'm curious if you have that favorite memory of a travel.
of trip that you've taken and what that speaks to you. Maybe we can close with that. Like what was that trip and how did it, yeah, how did it speak to you or change your perspective on things or maybe it just reduced anxiety, gave you a break. Is there a moment in your life where you can think of something like that?
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (35:20.942)
It's so weird because travel has been a part of my life, my whole life, because I have family in Italy. So since I was 10, my parents would take me every five years or so to see them, and that was always exciting to me. it's kind of in my DNA. when I think about it, when you ask it, it's funny what came up for me. I worked for a very big British-owned recruiting firm for a long time. was there five and a half years. And they had, because travel was so important to the UK,
they had quarterly bonuses that were trips. So if you were top dealer, you got to go away. At the end of the quarter, they would do like a week long trip with the top performers. And I made it a few times. And one time we went to Cabo San Lucas in Mexico. One time we went to Las Vegas. And I loved it. And I was just thinking as we were talking, I loved it because I never had to take out a wallet once, which for me is liberating because I can be very frugal and very responsible. And it felt like just total luxury.
Brandon Giella (35:53.423)
Cool.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (36:19.17)
But I think that actually spurred for me that I do like luxury travel so that when I have a good year at work as a business owner now, I try to think about that. Can I afford a better hotel? Can I have, I still won't pay for first class flights, but like, you know, can I stay somewhere on the water? Can I have a nice restaurant? That for me feels really good for rewarding the hard work I put in in a year. I think it spurred though from having someone else kind of.
Brandon Giella (36:34.765)
Yeah
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (36:47.758)
treat me to it to realize that like, okay, this is worth it. This really is nicer than staying in some crappy place. But yeah, I think for me it taught me, and just going to new environments that are different. I can get excited anywhere though, to James's point. I can be in a pumpkin patch in the Midwest, and as a New Yorker that's exciting to me. It's different, it's unique. I think for me it's more like that reminder that you can get out of your house and just like.
have an adventure. So important.
James Houchin (37:20.819)
I for me a real recent one, because to Laura's point, travel is just kind of like table stakes. I don't say that lightly. I know I'm blessed to be able to have a flexible work environment, a supportive employer. I'm very grateful for that. But just taking a couple of days to drive up through the Appalachians, basically a long weekend kind of through Kentucky, I don't know a lot of people that would like.
stop in Frankfort, like, you know, just kind of getting off the beaten trail and being able to just go hike Eastern Kentucky, you know, really kind of the heart of the Blue Ridge. Like that was gorgeous. It was just an easy, know, kind of lazy couple of days driving and like, hey, that looks interesting. I'm just going to stop. You know, nothing super fancy about it. Had those trips, loved those too. But just like, you know, I kind of just want to get out of my norm, do something a little different.
Brandon Giella (37:51.109)
I Frankfurt actually.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (37:52.834)
Yeah, absolutely.
James Houchin (38:18.049)
take advantage of the REI annual member sale and then, you know, just get out in the woods. So, that was probably it for me though. I can't say that like I'd ever tell an employee, Hey, you need to go hike rural Kentucky as beautiful as it is, as a way to kind of, de-stress and come back, you know, fresh. But, you know, it, that's a cool thing about travel, right? Like you never know quite where it may take you and it, can make.
Brandon Giella (38:24.372)
That's great.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (38:24.429)
Yeah.
Brandon Giella (38:31.842)
Hahaha
Brandon Giella (38:43.174)
Yeah.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (38:44.2)
We all travel so differently, right? We know the people who have every day planned, every reservation booked. There are those of us that like to wing it more. It's so personal. It's so interesting.
Brandon Giella (38:54.937)
Yeah.
James Houchin (38:56.085)
I'm one of those travelers that someone else is always taking my extra baggage allowances. Where like I lived out of Africa in a duffel bag in Africa for a month. Like I don't need a whole lot to be okay. I just do a lot of laundry. Other people, you they need six outfits per day. I'll leave the...
Brandon Giella (39:01.957)
you
Brandon Giella (39:14.839)
Yeah, I'm with Laura on the luxury side here. Okay. No, I did. I had a really nice, I had a luxury trip paid for by my brother's employer. we went to a very, very nice hotel in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. And because it was paid for by the employer, I never would have went to this place ever, but it gave me such an amazing, perspective, you know, just so changed my world. It's something I would have never done myself, but because it was from the employer, it was, it was amazing. Yeah.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (39:18.1)
Yeah. I actually feel like that.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (39:44.27)
Well, and sometimes it shows you, not to go back to psychology, but I will for a second to close out here, I think it also helps you kind of recognize your worth. So, you know, for those of us who didn't grow up with generational wealth or a lot of examples of like excess or luxury or whatever, we come to that on our own in adulthood. And so when we recognize like we work hard and we can, and it's not gonna hurt us and it's okay.
I think again, generationally our parents and grandparents typically didn't do that. They put everything aside, they saved, they were. So again, it just goes back to how we were brought up and maybe the things that were modeled for us. And I think as adults, it's been exciting. You know, I guess I've been an adult for 20 plus years now, but I still feel like I'm learning. It's like, okay, I'm in my 40s. I can make my own financial choices. So if I wanna splurge a little bit on a trip, because I feel worth it, I feel like that's...
Brandon Giella (40:27.383)
Yeah.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (40:38.326)
as you said, hotel's gonna make me feel good, great, I think it's important. I do think it's a tool that kind of helps you gain that self-confidence and that's so holistic and so important at work. So it all ties back.
Brandon Giella (40:54.681)
Well, thank you for you both for your insights on this. know travel is important to us individually, but also because of our work relationships and things like that, we get to talk about travel quite frequently and I love doing that. And I love just being able to explore and understand different insights and different.
perspectives on the travel industry because it can be complicated and I know you guys are working hard to make it a lot simpler for employers especially to offer that as a benefit. So I'm grateful to you both and I'm excited to see where you travel next time.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (41:28.302)
Let's share, we'll have to do a follow up next year and see where we went.
Brandon Giella (41:31.574)
man, I'm in, I'm ready. Charleston, South Carolina is next on my list. So we'll see how it goes. Yeah. I do. Thankfully it's Thanksgiving. So you got to go anyway. Well, thank you both so much. And I will see at least James on the next episode of the travel buddy. We'll see you next time.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (41:35.278)
good. I think you have something on the calendar. Okay, good. Good.
James Houchin (41:49.557)
Laura, thank you for joining. Have a good one.
Laura @EastSideStaffing.com (41:49.686)
Yeah. of course. Thanks for having me.
Brandon Giella (41:53.593)
Bye.
